{"id":7266,"date":"2010-04-02T16:10:13","date_gmt":"2010-04-02T22:10:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.ldswomenofgod.com\/?p=7266"},"modified":"2016-02-06T20:19:33","modified_gmt":"2016-02-07T02:19:33","slug":"how-do-we-stand-when-the-prophet-speaks-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.reliefsocietywomen.com\/blog\/2010\/04\/02\/how-do-we-stand-when-the-prophet-speaks-2\/","title":{"rendered":"How Do We Stand When the Prophet Speaks?"},"content":{"rendered":"

I feel compelled to speak out to the\u00a0Ordain Women group who are in the news<\/span><\/a>.<\/span> This is a time for Relief Society sisters to\u00a0stand for something and unite<\/span><\/a><\/span>\u00a0our belief, faith, and witness.<\/p>\n

Many sisters have come up to me and argued that we should all be Mormon Feminists. And I have continued to attempt to make my point that there is no such thing as a faithful Mormon Feminist. I’m sorry if I’ve struck a chord. As much as the world wants us to believe we live in an ever-graying world, the reality is that everything still remains black and white.<\/p>\n

The Ordain Women movement is an attempt to change the doctrine of Jesus Christ. They quote scripture as proof that they have a valid argument. They speak of equality in all things. What are they really saying as active, faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?<\/p>\n

They may indeed be active members of the LDS Church, but the sad truth is they lack understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ that was set in the councils of heaven.<\/p>\n

As I understand it, Heavenly Father gathered all of His children around and explained that He wanted all of us to become like Him. There was only one way to do it. We had to come down to earth and be tested, and of course, receive a body. Our Heavenly Father created a Plan to get us back, but there were two key elements that we needed to be aware of. First, we would have agency. He needed to see us CHOOSE Him, and all that He asked. Second, a Savior would be sent to complete a portion of the requirements we were unable to do for ourselves.<\/p>\n

Heavenly Father is our Father and our Leader. His Plan falls under a Patriarchal Order. We do as He says. Does that sound Chauvinistic to anyone? Not when we consider He is a perfect being, loves ALL of His children, and has provided a way for ALL of us to return to His presence.<\/p>\n

When Satan wanted to change the Plan (only slightly), it was enough to cause a great war where one-third of the children of God wanted to side with this change. This miscalculation (of getting Heavenly Father to change His already perfect Plan) turned into Eternal Outer Darkness for these children.<\/p>\n

I have tried to think how so many fell for Satan\u2019s enticements. I think people like to hear about an easier way, but I also think people just like to be different. Some people even enjoy drama and contention in their lives. (I actually know several people who fall under this category. They are still wonderful, kind, loving people, but drama seems to follow them around.) Why do people insist on being “devil’s advocates” merely to see the other side of things? I have come to realize that some people like to question, because they simply lack faith.<\/p>\n

Fast forward to the front lines here on earth. The war continues today. There are basically two schools of thought. (1) The world and all its enticements led by a guy who will do anything to destroy God\u2019s Plan. (2) God\u2019s Plan of goodness and happiness. The LDS Church does not have exclusive rights to the second thought. There are many good people who chose God\u2019s Plan because they have faith, they want true happiness, and they actually like the Plan the way it is.<\/p>\n

Faith is a living, breathing, factor in each of our lives. If we don\u2019t feed it and nourish it, it will die. Some people struggle with their faith. Some even fight the feeling. Others learn to hold on to it when there is nothing left to hold on to.\u00a0Our willingness to obey hard things, and trust in stuff we can\u2019t explain, but we know are true, shows what faith we have.<\/p>\n

Another thing I try to explain to people is that the early sisters of the Church were not true Feminists. Yes, they wanted rights that had been denied them, but they never wanted \u201cequality\u201d as others saw it. Our sisters wanted to be able to live their religion without being persecuted for it; namely, to live the law of polygamy. They understood the doctrine of polygamy: That both men and women needed to be sealed to one another in order to reach the highest kingdom of glory. The problem, that has always been, is that typically there are more righteous women than there are men. (That is not a stab toward men; the evidence sits in every one of our wards.) And maybe that\u2019s just timing: war takes a lot of our men, men don\u2019t live as long; it could be a number of reasons.<\/p>\n

Back to the Ordain Women group. They sincerely believe what they are doing is right. Well, I guess that\u2019s their prerogative. The problem is they are trying to change a Plan that has been preset, a Plan that was laid out to save them. Sadly, they are acting a little like Satan did in that first council meeting.<\/p>\n

Heavenly Father is my leader. I choose Him to follow. I am His daughter and He has given me a role in life to pursue and find happiness in. Occasionally, I see injustices around me made by imperfect people I bump into during my journey. Sometimes I speak up, sometimes I don\u2019t. But mostly, I strive to be as faithful and obedient as possible. I am the one who makes my choices black and white, so I can remain on the right side of the line and not wander astray. I have the promise now, but I know that some day I will indeed become a priestess in the kingdom of God. Does that mean I will be given the priesthood? Not by today\u2019s definition, but by God\u2019s. Am I here to change, reshape, reinvent, and modify at will God\u2019s will? No. I desire my will to be swept up into God\u2019s will that it will all become one will; His will.<\/p>\n

Comment:<\/p>\n

Rozy says–Very good post, Jan. Thanks for sharing your testimony. I was around when the feminists were trying to get the Equal Right\u2019s Amendment passed in the mid 70\u2032s. Mormon women didn\u2019t want to follow the prophet then either; nor when President Benson asked them to come home and take their place as wives and mothers instead of trying to do it all. I think it comes down to \u201cdo I follow the prophet? or my own understanding?\u201d Too many women, unfortunately, have been indoctrinated by the worldly wisdom on men (Satan) and refuse to follow the prophet, who is the watchman on the tower and can see much further than we can.<\/p>\n

Just a note on the polygamy; the reason God commands it at some times and not at others seems to be explained in Jacob 2:30 where after telling the people that they were committing whoredoms by having multiple wives and concubines,(justifying themselves because they were doing what David and Solomon did) he says \u201cFor if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.\u201d<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t read about these seemingly apostate groups, because I don\u2019t have time to waste and don\u2019t know that any good would come from it, but what do they want to be able to do that they are not able to do now? Priesthood is a conduit of service not power over others. Women certainly can serve without holding the priesthood. Do they want to give blessings? My mother\u2019s prayers of faith were answered EVERY TIME. She had amazing faith, as if a direct line to heaven. Do they want to \u201crun the show\u201d and tell others what to do? Like that\u2019s what priesthood leaders do. They ought to try being a Relief Society President and see how telling others what to do goes over!<\/p>\n

I cannot understand them. And just like the secular feminists of the 60\u2032s and 70\u2032s they are barking up the wrong tree. I do not want to be equal to or the same as a man. I want him to come up to my level!!! Which serving through the priesthood he can be. Men need the civilizing and spiritualizing of the priesthood, learning to work cooperatively rather than competitively; serving and loving others before self. Most women are naturally endowed with those qualities and express them through the Relief Society. I\u2019m sorry if that has not been these sisters experience, but I believe it is the majority of the sisters in the churches\u2019 experience.<\/p>\n

Thanks again for sharing your testimony. I wholeheartedly agree that doctrines and decisions to follow them are black and white. God said he cannot look on sin with the least degree of allowance; which sound pretty black and white to me.<\/p>\n

Jan says–Thanks, Rozy!<\/p>\n

Melhoney says–While I do not personally support OW, I find this post absurd. You go extreme to the right and further polarize the issue. There is a way to disagree in a loving way without bringing in the war in heaven. This is how the Pharisees and Sadducees would have responded. Jesus would have encircled them in love and even if he disagreed, done it in a less condemning way. To infer that they \u201cenjoy drama and contention in their lives\u201d is mean spirited and unchristian like. You can disagree in a more graceful way.I cannot read this blog anymore. I just don\u2019t think this post exemplifies what an \u201cLDS women of God\u201d is.<\/p>\n

Jan says–Being the owner of this blog, I have no choice but to stand up for what I believe. There are so many out there who twist truth to justify their own thoughts, we all have to be watchful. I have stated my opinion pretty clearly and I make no apology for it. This group will continue on the path they have chosen, but the way I see it, it is a very dangerous path that has been chosen many times before to a disastrous end.<\/p>\n

And I disagree with your statement with how Jesus would handle this. When the \u201cplain and precious\u201d truths were removed from the Bible, Jesus saw fit to give us the JST, and the Book of Mormon et al, just so we would know clearly why He offered His atoning sacrifice and how Satan acts, deceives, and destroys. With this black and white information our choices become clear.<\/p>\n

And you are entitled to your own opinion as well.<\/p>\n

Susan says–Jan, I loved that you brought in and explained that Heavenly Father\u2019s perfect plan originated in, and was brought forth and accepted by all of us in the preexistence. I think often this very simple and basic concept of life before this one is not talked enough about, nor focused on in gospel discussion. Some of us can\u2019t accept what appears to many a mystery, or something that can\u2019t be explained to one\u2019s complete satisfaction. Because a veil was drawn between this world and that one, we may tend to negate or toss aside its supreme importance in the plan of salvation. What was completely discussed there, what was completely planned and implemented there, how long we lived and resided there, we do not know, and we do not know because it was for a righteous purpose that we will never know ALL the answers. FAITH is that righteous purpose. I just recently learned about a statement made by President Joseph Fielding Smith that essentially said, there is no reason to change the Church, because \u201cthe church is perfect and cannot be improved upon.\u201d We make choices every day of our lives, and we have to judge between truth and error on a daily basis as well. In that case, I will take and support the late Prophet\u2019s position every time.<\/p>\n

Jan says–Thank you, Susan. Good words to know and depend upon.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Miriam says–I agree with you 100%! I think you\u2019ve done a good job articulating my feelings as well. I am sad the OW group have let themselves become tools in Satan\u2019s hands.<\/p>\n

SS says–When President Kimball announced blacks could have the priesthood, he said (emphasis added):
\nwitnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, **we have pleaded long and earnestly** in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple **supplicating the Lord for divine guidance**. He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood.<\/p>\n

The LDS Bible Dictionary says (emphasis added):
\nThe object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others **blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them**. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.<\/p>\n

Apparently, one requirement for blacks to get the priesthood was long and earnest pleading with the Lord. What if God is willing to grant the blessing of holding the priesthood to women, but is waiting for enough, or the right, people to ask? Women holding the priesthood isn\u2019t without precedent. The Bible had priestesses and prophetesses. Joseph Smith ordained women. Women perform ordinances in today\u2019s temples.<\/p>\n

The ultimate answer is, of course, if and when the Lord reveals that women should have the priesthood, then they should. But He may be waiting for us to secure those blessings by asking for them.<\/p>\n

Jan says–I see what you are saying. Sometimes we have to bring up the point in order for change to be made. However, I still disagree with your arguments.<\/p>\n

First, clearly, Pres. Kimball is saying that the brethren prayed for council; not the membership.<\/p>\n

Second, as I said in my post, this is a Patriarchal Order. If you have gone to the temple, you know that there is a set order in place from Heavenly Father to Jesus Christ to Adam to Eve, following the priesthood line of authority.<\/p>\n

You might like to read the Nauvoo Relief Society Minutes which can be found athttp:\/\/www.josephsmithpapers.org<\/a>. As you read through them you will see how Joseph Smith enlightens the women to their station according to how God views them (us). We have our responsibilities, just as the men do, but ours are specific to our gifts and talents as women. Joseph clearly states how necessary the women are to fulfill their divine role.<\/p>\n

It appears you are requesting that that divine role be modified to also include the role of men. And that is what has everyone in a tizzy, today.<\/p>\n

SS says–Do you agree there\u2019s a possibility that some day the Prophet could announce that women could start getting the priesthood? That God revealing that to His prophet would be considered new revelation? Or is that impossible? Will it never, ever happen? (Keeping in mind that Bruce R. McConkie said blacks would never, ever get the priesthood, and then they did, and he said he was wrong).<\/p>\n

Jan says–As I said in my post, I believe women already have the priesthood. If they are to be given any more it will be God\u2019s idea of what that entails; it won\u2019t be because we asked. I do believe women can preside, give counsel, and hold offices of presidency. They do today. Women have given blessings in the past and we don\u2019t know why that isn\u2019t available to us today; perhaps that will come some time in the future, maybe not. I don\u2019t believe it is our place to ask for these things.<\/p>\n

I have participated in, and received, the same covenants that any priesthood holder has received. They are the same saving ordinances necessary to return back to Heavenly Father. I just don\u2019t know what more there is to ask for.<\/p>\n

John says–Jan, you made a great point! \u201cThe women of the Church already have the priesthood\u201d \u2026 spot on. I do not think the Lord through His prophets will ever ordain women. It\u2019s not the doctrine and it will not change (fundamental doctrines in our church do not and will not change). Elder Oaks spoke about this very thing last General Conference.For those who talk about blacks and the priesthood in the same breath as ordaining women, we need to remember that on LDS.org in talking about the issue it was policy. Policy, yes, but not doctrine. The policies can evolve to fit the needs of a growing church but the core doctrine cannot change. It\u2019s similar to the gay marriage issue. The Lord, through His prophets, will NEVER allow for acceptance of gay marriage and the change of the entire doctrine on the plan of salvation. He will change this. It has been said over and over again by prophets and apostles yet somehow people think that God\u2019s mind will eventually change on the issue. It\u2019s not our doctrine to change, and we cannot. God is unchangeable and thank goodness for that.<\/p>\n

Angela says–Can I share something from a friend who posted this on his blog? It says it so much better than I could:<\/p>\n

\u201cThere are so many people, movements, voices, ideas, websites that claim to know where they are heading. Many have been deceived themselves, and passionately encouraging us to join in their self-deception.<\/p>\n

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24)<\/p>\n

It is happening all around us. People we know and see as \u201celect\u201d saints are being sucked into deception and being led away by self-appointed leaders, and are marching in lockstep \u2013 in the wrong direction. It is heartbreaking to see it, and even more heartbreaking that they don\u2019t see it.<\/p>\n

When I sit down and engage in General Conference, I listen to my leaders with a desire to learn more. Why? Because I voted to sustain them, and have a spiritual witness that they are who they claim to be. Because of those two things, I am able to accept their teachings with an open heart, and a desire to figure out how to apply the counsel it in my life. If I lack this witness, and a sustaining heart, I will listen with a jaded ear \u2013 searching for things I can disagree with, and ways to excuse myself from following their counsel. Instead of agreeing with the principles they teach, I will find fault, murmur and share my discontent.<\/p>\n

There are many voices out there who are more than happy to lead us. Thankfully, the voices we can trust will be front-and-center, leading the way next weekend at General Conference.<\/p>\n

..and they know where we are going.\u201d<\/p>\n

Kristin says–I don\u2019t agree with Ordain Women or believe women need to be ordained to the priesthood, but I very much disagree with the tone of this post. I don\u2019t feel like you\u2019ve really internalized many of the beautiful messages delivered during the General Women\u2019s Meeting if your decision is to come away from that and say, \u201cthere is no such thing as a faithful Mormon Feminist.\u201d These women are your sisters, they are trying to reconcile their beliefs and remain in the Church, and their faithfulness is a not a matter for your adjucation.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m mostly just commenting on behalf of the early Mormon women you presume to speak\u2013my 4th-great-grandmother Louisa Barnes Pratt has her journal quoted on a plaque on Church-curated trail out of Nauvoo. Her words:<\/p>\n

\u201cLast evening the ladies met to organize\u2026Several resolutions were adopted\u2026If the men wish to hold control over the women, let
\nthem be on the alert. We believe in equal rights.\u201d<\/p>\n

The Church absolutely preaches equality between men and women, and does not put the word equality in scare quotes.<\/p>\n

I believe you\u2019re trying to do the right thing with your post and stand for what you believe in, and I applaud that, but I think you have a way to go in reflecting the love and inclusiveness we hear from our inspired leaders.<\/p>\n

Jan says–That\u2019s probably why I\u2019m not a leader.<\/p>\n

Some people have thought my post was too strong, others not strong enough. Go figure.<\/p>\n

My guess is that a lot of the women who want the priesthood have actually had one too many run-ins with bishops, or men in general. I get that. I have too. But my faith carries me through their imperfections. I feel questioning the gospel is equivalent to questioning faith. We all know the Church isn\u2019t perfect, but the gospel is, and these women appear to be questioning the gospel.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I feel compelled to speak out to the\u00a0Ordain Women group who are in the news. This is a time for Relief Society sisters to\u00a0stand for something and unite\u00a0our belief, faith, and witness. Many sisters have come up to me and argued that we should all be Mormon Feminists. And I have continued to attempt to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":7230,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[487],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-7266","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-proclaim-the-gospel"],"yoast_head":"\nHow Do We Stand When the Prophet Speaks? – Relief Society Women<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.reliefsocietywomen.com\/blog\/2010\/04\/02\/how-do-we-stand-when-the-prophet-speaks-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"How Do We Stand When the Prophet Speaks? – Relief Society Women\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I feel compelled to speak out to the\u00a0Ordain Women group who are in the news. 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